Discussion:
[urbit] Breach incoming! And big changes!
Raymond Pasco
2016-02-16 00:54:27 UTC
Permalink
Everything's changed, so read carefully.

- The network is breaching. The infamous Hoon 151 is one of the things
coming in on this breach.
- The project has been refactored into multiple repositories. There are
about five now, by my count.
- The main repositories have been rewritten. Your copies and forks are all
useless now, sorry, you'll have to reclone, but:
- The main urbit repository will be a reasonable 5MB download to clone,
rather than pushing 1GB. This is because:
- urbit.pill versions are still stored, but they're now stored on
bootstrap.urbit.org.
You'll need to `curl -o urbit.pill http://bootstrap.urbit.org/latest.pill`
or similar.
Right now it just looks for a file named urbit.pill in the current
directory, but this will be automated a bit more very soon.
- It might not actually be a reasonable 5MB yet, because we're hosted on
GitHub and there's no way to force them to GC. Workaround if this happens:
mkdir urbit
cd urbit
git init
git pull https://github.com/urbit/urbit master
git remote add origin https://github.com/urbit/urbit
git fetch
git branch -u origin/master
- If you're a contributor or carrier pilot, you'll also want to clone the
arvo repository. Just clone it right inside your urbit repo.
They're intended to nest. Carriers will be looking in arvo/ rather than
urb/zod/ for their files now.
Git will, shockingly, manage to do the right thing. This one's a
reasonable 12MB on the wire.
- If you're a web frontend contributor, the coffeescript and scss sources
for each frontend (talk, tree) are in their own repositories.
- If you're a contributor to the docs - that's in its own repository (docs)
too.

Keep your eyes on your email for notice on when you can start using the
network again. Please send any problems in by the usual channels.

Yours,
r
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Raymond Pasco
2016-02-16 01:26:10 UTC
Permalink
Breach complete. Welcome to the new age. If you have any trouble, please
email the list.

Remember that you need a completely fresh clone! git clone
https://github.com/urbit/urbit; cd urbit; curl -o urbit.pill
http://bootstrap.urbit.org/latest.pill; make; etc

Yours,
r
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Curtis Yarvin
2016-02-16 02:07:14 UTC
Permalink
I get an "invalid certificate chain" when I try to curl the pill:

url: (60) SSL certificate problem: Invalid certificate chain
Post by Raymond Pasco
Breach complete. Welcome to the new age. If you have any trouble, please
email the list.
Remember that you need a completely fresh clone! git clone
https://github.com/urbit/urbit; cd urbit; curl -o urbit.pill
http://bootstrap.urbit.org/latest.pill; make; etc
Yours,
r
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Raymond Pasco
2016-02-16 02:08:18 UTC
Permalink
I didn't say https. You probably muscle-memoried it in there.

I don't know if Google Cloud offers it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Curtis Yarvin [mailto:***@tlon.io]
Sent: Monday, 15 February, 2016 21:07
To: Raymond Pasco <***@the.ug>
Cc: urbit-***@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [urbit] Breach incoming! And big changes!

I get an "invalid certificate chain" when I try to curl the pill:

url: (60) SSL certificate problem: Invalid certificate chain
Post by Raymond Pasco
Breach complete. Welcome to the new age. If you have any trouble,
please email the list.
Remember that you need a completely fresh clone! git clone
https://github.com/urbit/urbit; cd urbit; curl -o urbit.pill
http://bootstrap.urbit.org/latest.pill; make; etc
Yours,
r
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Curtis Yarvin
2016-02-16 02:09:02 UTC
Permalink
That makes sense, thanks! We should get it to be https though, somehow.
Post by Raymond Pasco
I didn't say https. You probably muscle-memoried it in there.
I don't know if Google Cloud offers it.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 15 February, 2016 21:07
Subject: Re: [urbit] Breach incoming! And big changes!
url: (60) SSL certificate problem: Invalid certificate chain
Post by Raymond Pasco
Breach complete. Welcome to the new age. If you have any trouble,
please email the list.
Remember that you need a completely fresh clone! git clone
https://github.com/urbit/urbit; cd urbit; curl -o urbit.pill
http://bootstrap.urbit.org/latest.pill; make; etc
Yours,
r
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Raymond Pasco
2016-02-16 02:11:33 UTC
Permalink
Amazon supports it. I'm sure there's some way to finagle It onto Google.

-----Original Message-----
From: urbit-***@googlegroups.com [mailto:urbit-***@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Curtis Yarvin
Sent: Monday, 15 February, 2016 21:09
To: Raymond Pasco <***@the.ug>
Cc: urbit-***@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [urbit] Breach incoming! And big changes!

That makes sense, thanks! We should get it to be https though, somehow.
Post by Raymond Pasco
I didn't say https. You probably muscle-memoried it in there.
I don't know if Google Cloud offers it.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 15 February, 2016 21:07
Subject: Re: [urbit] Breach incoming! And big changes!
url: (60) SSL certificate problem: Invalid certificate chain
Post by Raymond Pasco
Breach complete. Welcome to the new age. If you have any trouble,
please email the list.
Remember that you need a completely fresh clone! git clone
https://github.com/urbit/urbit; cd urbit; curl -o urbit.pill
http://bootstrap.urbit.org/latest.pill; make; etc
Yours,
r
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Curtis Yarvin
2016-02-16 02:16:18 UTC
Permalink
Anyway, with http it seems to work fine. Thanks, Raymond!
Post by Raymond Pasco
I didn't say https. You probably muscle-memoried it in there.
I don't know if Google Cloud offers it.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 15 February, 2016 21:07
Subject: Re: [urbit] Breach incoming! And big changes!
url: (60) SSL certificate problem: Invalid certificate chain
Post by Raymond Pasco
Breach complete. Welcome to the new age. If you have any trouble,
please email the list.
Remember that you need a completely fresh clone! git clone
https://github.com/urbit/urbit; cd urbit; curl -o urbit.pill
http://bootstrap.urbit.org/latest.pill; make; etc
Yours,
r
--
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Anton Dyudin
2016-02-16 01:08:44 UTC
Permalink
https://github.com/urbit/sole is also live, and demonstrates a somewhat
more minimal frontend repo.
Post by Raymond Pasco
Everything's changed, so read carefully.
- The network is breaching. The infamous Hoon 151 is one of the things
coming in on this breach.
- The project has been refactored into multiple repositories. There are
about five now, by my count.
- The main repositories have been rewritten. Your copies and forks are all
- The main urbit repository will be a reasonable 5MB download to clone,
- urbit.pill versions are still stored, but they're now stored on
bootstrap.urbit.org.
You'll need to `curl -o urbit.pill
http://bootstrap.urbit.org/latest.pill`
or similar.
Right now it just looks for a file named urbit.pill in the current
directory, but this will be automated a bit more very soon.
- It might not actually be a reasonable 5MB yet, because we're hosted on
mkdir urbit
cd urbit
git init
git pull https://github.com/urbit/urbit master
git remote add origin https://github.com/urbit/urbit
git fetch
git branch -u origin/master
- If you're a contributor or carrier pilot, you'll also want to clone the
arvo repository. Just clone it right inside your urbit repo.
They're intended to nest. Carriers will be looking in arvo/ rather than
urb/zod/ for their files now.
Git will, shockingly, manage to do the right thing. This one's a
reasonable 12MB on the wire.
- If you're a web frontend contributor, the coffeescript and scss sources
for each frontend (talk, tree) are in their own repositories.
- If you're a contributor to the docs - that's in its own repository (docs)
too.
Keep your eyes on your email for notice on when you can start using the
network again. Please send any problems in by the usual channels.
Yours,
r
--
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c***@gmail.com
2016-02-16 17:36:56 UTC
Permalink
[It's happening gif]
Congratulations everyone! Is there any reason urbit/arvo isn't a git submodule, though? And pulling the pill isn't in the makefile.
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Raymond Pasco
2016-02-16 17:38:45 UTC
Permalink
Getting the pill is in the instructions, and will eventually be in vere.

Submodules are for tightly coupling things. The whole reason for splitting
repositories was to uncouple them. Not everything is a nail!

Yours,
r
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Anton Dyudin
2016-02-16 17:41:19 UTC
Permalink
Can we put it in vere as text at least?

"Pill not found. Please curl -o urbit.pill https://bootstrap.urbit.org/{sha
of latest pill commit from makefile}.pill"
Post by Raymond Pasco
Getting the pill is in the instructions, and will eventually be in vere.
Submodules are for tightly coupling things. The whole reason for splitting
repositories was to uncouple them. Not everything is a nail!
Yours,
r
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Raymond Pasco
2016-02-16 17:49:23 UTC
Permalink
Not in *that* form, because that's extremely wrong...

Yours,
r
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Anton Dyudin
2016-02-16 17:52:14 UTC
Permalink
Elaborate?

Like perhaps it should be a zuse kelvin version or something, and be in a
header and not makefile, but it should definitely be compiled in the same
way, well, the breaking arvo interface changes or w/e were.
Post by Raymond Pasco
Not in *that* form, because that's extremely wrong...
Yours,
r
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Galen
2016-02-16 17:58:33 UTC
Permalink
Doesn’t strike me as extremely wrong either, actually.

I thin our installation instructions in general are in need of an update though, no?
Post by Anton Dyudin
Elaborate?
Like perhaps it should be a zuse kelvin version or something, and be in a header and not makefile, but it should definitely be compiled in the same way, well, the breaking arvo interface changes or w/e were.
Not in *that* form, because that's extremely wrong...
Yours,
r
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Raymond Pasco
2016-02-16 17:59:55 UTC
Permalink
It's certainly beyond wrong to go to all this effort to decouple things and
then turn around and recouple them with paper clips...

Yours,
r
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Raymond Pasco
2016-02-16 18:02:50 UTC
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Having an ABI is not really breaking new ground in the systems programming
space, I think we can manage the same way it's usually done.

Yours,
r
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Anton Dyudin
2016-02-16 18:12:35 UTC
Permalink
I'm sure we /can/, but until we do so "this file that used to be checked
into the repo isn't, fatal error, RTFM maybe?" is bad UI.
Post by Raymond Pasco
Having an ABI is not really breaking new ground in the systems programming
space, I think we can manage the same way it's usually done.
Yours,
r
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Raymond Pasco
2016-02-16 18:14:16 UTC
Permalink
You are changing the subject to the uncontroversial "make the message more
informative", when what I object to is "tightly couple vere and arvo
versions after going to all this trouble to decouple them".

Yours,
r
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Anton Dyudin
2016-02-16 18:19:56 UTC
Permalink
- by "latest pill commit" I meant the last commit of arvo which resulted in
a breaking change, not the latest vere one period; nonbreaking changes can
be synced fine over the network anyway; regardless,
- so you are on board with the Kelvin Version variant then? I'm not saying
tightly, but they do need to be coupled well enough that the vere could
curl the right file (where "latest" is the wrong one except in the special
case where you just pulled, master, off urbit/urbit), and asking the user
to do so is the next best thing.
Post by Raymond Pasco
You are changing the subject to the uncontroversial "make the message more
informative", when what I object to is "tightly couple vere and arvo
versions after going to all this trouble to decouple them".
Yours,
r
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Anton Dyudin
2016-02-16 18:22:31 UTC
Permalink
Also, what branch was the breach done off of? http://doznec.urbit.org
having an x path instead of content is actually a ford bug introduced by
typed .^, which I remember fixing
<https://github.com/ohAitch/urbit/commit/5387680> on tree-apps(as well as
some of the generators, though not all of them yet).
Post by Anton Dyudin
I'm sure we /can/, but until we do so "this file that used to be checked
into the repo isn't, fatal error, RTFM maybe?" is bad UI.
Post by Raymond Pasco
Having an ABI is not really breaking new ground in the systems programming
space, I think we can manage the same way it's usually done.
Yours,
r
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Raymond Pasco
2016-02-16 18:25:58 UTC
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Bug fixes are extremely welcome :)

Yours,
r
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Anton Dyudin
2016-02-16 18:28:40 UTC
Permalink

yes, so which things are merged and which aren't?
Post by Raymond Pasco
Bug fixes are extremely welcome :)
Yours,
r
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Anton Dyudin
2016-02-16 18:30:30 UTC
Permalink
I suppose I could just PR tree-apps, which has tree-comments in it, and let
the merge algorithm figure it out.
Post by Anton Dyudin

yes, so which things are merged and which aren't?
Post by Raymond Pasco
Bug fixes are extremely welcome :)
Yours,
r
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